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Neo-Angle Shower Leak
Please Help!!
I just read your "Installing A Neo-Angle Shower" pages and
I have a few questions/comments
I have a new house (ok it was built in late '97 but I have been
there since new and I have had this problem since the house was 6
months old) and it has a Neo-Angle shower.
I have had leaking problems and I blame it on the installation which
I think is the same as yours (almost).
The builder/plumber installed the base as you did BEFORE the
drywall. this means that there is drywall between the shower walls
and the lip that is on the shower base. I realize I have a problem
because the base moves ever so slightly when I step by the wall.
Well, of course this causes the caulk to flex and leak. Every 4
months or less so I re-caulk. Would you agree that a better seal
would have been made if the shower wall could have been bonded to
the base??
Also I did not see from your installation that you screwed the glass
door framing to the base. I also have the problem that as the door
opens and closes the motion causes the caulk sealing the door to
give way and leak. Would you suggest screwing this down?
Either way, I have a leaking shower! As the water leaks between the
wall and base, it drips out the sides and is messing up the drywall.
The front leak is also causing grief.
Do you have any suggestion of how I could fix the leaking issue? I
have thought of ripping out the shower and starting new. Should I
move the base out so it will contact the wall? I will have to move
it 3/4" out, thus cause a plumbing miss match. Note, the shower
is also surrounded by tile laid after the shower installation.
If you have any suggestions I would be forever grateful and my wife
even more. We have not used this shower in over 6 months and sharing
the hall shower is getting old.
Glenn F.
You
have one pain-in-the-rear problem on your hands.
The home's builder should be held responsible for this problem,
but pursuing legal action could be more trouble than it's worth
because so much time has elapsed.
First, the easy (I think) problem. The base track should NOT be
screwed to the shower base. The Sterling shower in the article
explicitly said to NOT drill into the base, and that the track
should only be adhered with silicone caulk.
Some builders and plumbers can't tell silicone from
acrylic-latex-with-silicone, and that may be the problem. I would
scrape off all the caulking on the base track, and clean
everything thoroughly:
- Chlorine Bleach to kill off the fungal growth.
- A good lime remover (I like CLR) to remove any traces
of mineral deposits.
- A lot of scrubbing and scraping.
- Followed by a thorough rinsing and drying. Use a hair
dryer if necessary to ensure perfect drying.
Use a good-quality Kitchen And Bath 100% Silicone caulk.
The Kitchen And Bath silicones have an anti-mildew additive that
helps in places like this.
Apply the silicone heavily, and smooth it with a wetted finger.
Smoothing silicone is sort of an art form. I get good results by
keeping my finger as parallel to the caulk bead as possible (i.e.
a low angle of intersection). You want to squeeze a lot of caulk
into the gap between metal and plastic, but no too much because it
could lift up the metal.
Now that's the easy fix.
The Difficult Problem:
The base is another matter. I would NOT attempt to move the base
out from the wall. I can visualize that a base that rocked or
moved would be a very big problem. The best cure is going to
revolve around getting something under the base to prevent this
motion. I believe I applied a good amount of Liquid Nails when I
installed that base (as the instructions said). But for you to
remove the base just to re-glue it would be a real mess.
First (and easiest) Approach:
There are some other types of caulk that stretch more than
silicone. I think I've seen them at Home Depot (maybe urethane
caulk?), but I would not stop there. Try every lumber yard and
plumbing supply store in town.
If that fails, Second Approach:
One question: Is that loose spot against an interior wall? If so,
can you get on the other side of that wall? If so, my approach
would be to make a small hole in the drywall behind the shower's
loose spot and try to see the shower base from behind. If I could
see the base (which may be foam like the one I put in) then I
would try to inject some sort of material that would harden and
fill that void. (I would also want to have another person step on
that spot while I watched, to see the problem in action).
If you could do this (and it's a BIG if) then you should be able
to get something under the loose spot. I'm thinking:
- That expanding foam insulation in a can. The "minimal
expanding" formula should cure to a firm enough foam that it
would support the weight of a person. And the straw dispenser tube
may let you inject it in the right spot. Or...
- Alex Plus caulking
- Liquid Nails glue
- A wood shim
Third Approach:
Also, there may be some flexible membrane materials that you could
slip UNDER the plastic sheet wall surround, and then caulk to the
base. There is a material called EPDM rubber which is used for
roofs and such, and it's very flexible. This sounds kind of lame
to me, but it might work as a last resort.
Bruce W. Maki, Editor.
Glenn Replies:
Let me go over some points,
The easy part: The glass door. After caulking a few times, I
resorted to applying epoxy to the metal and base at the bends then
applying the best silicon K&Bath caulk I could find. sure enough
(maybe I did not clean the base well enough) but the epoxy broke
loose. As the boor shuts (rather abruptly because of the magnet) the
caulk/glue loosened and it began to leak again. Note: glue is stuck
hard as a rock to the metal but NOT the base. Do you think I should
remove the glass altogether and apply a bead under the metal? or
should running it on the inside and out be enough? Note there are
small holes in the door jam were water gets in. I think it just
sets in there between the 2 caulk beads.
The hard part:
The base move just slightly 1/8" or less but it is just enough
to cause the caulk to start to loosen. I tried soft and hard caulk.
I even wedged a piece of plastic between the "wall" and
base before caulking this seamed to work best but again the caulk
came loose.
As for getting something under the base, as home projects go, it is
an exterior wall but ah! the wall is inside my garage. Sounds like a
perfect entry point BUT that wall is BRICK. As I write I am
wondering if I put a ton of weight on the base, if I could get a
small nail/screw into the lip of the base an hit a stud.....would
this hold the base down? I wish there were a way to make a bond
between the wall and base something like when you "melt"
pvc pipe together. I was thinking of running a bead of Marine Epoxy
along the seam then covering with caulk? Think the epoxy could fuse
the 2 together?
On a side note, I have found a similar base made of stainless steel.
I was thinking of installing that with stainless steel walls then
(either before or after installation) having all the seams welded
together.
That would be perfect.
Well with your help I think I will start on the project. I'll try to
get you a photo so you can see the problem. First I really need to
CLEAN the surfaces that may be my biggest flaw. Oh, as for the
builder, he is small and I had enough trouble getting other things
fixed (the tile floor in both this bathroom and my Kitchen/hall was
put down on 5/8" plywood ....you fill in the blanks...
cracking, breaking tear up the floor add more plywood, retile...
dust, dirt, headache, headache......also makes the shower base
1" below the tile top)
Glenn F.
Replacing
the entire shower with an all-welded stainless steel unit may
sound appealing... but should not be necessary. I guess I would
sooner tear out the wall surround material and replace the drywall
(using Moisture Resistant drywall). This not-overly-radical
approach should provide you with access to the shower base to get
something beneath it to stop the movement, and possibly add more
screws to attach it to the studs better. You might even be able to
remove the base (if you can get the drain disconnected), level the
floor, and replace it using lots of glue.
And such a repair does not have to involve tearing out large
sections of drywall. All you need is enough access for your hands
and maybe some tools. Start with a small hole and make it larger
as necessary. HammerZone has an article on repairing drywall, and
since you would be covering it with shower/tub surround, nobody
will know the difference.
This repair would entail buying new wall surround, I'm sure, but
sheets of surround are available at many stores.
Peeling off the old surround will tear the paper on the drywall,
but that can be covered with a paint/primer product called Gardz
made by Zinsser. Gardz is a primer made for torn drywall paper.
Then you should be able to glue the new surround (using Liquid
Nails For Tub Surrounds, or equivalent) back to the wall.
As for the door track... if I had to, I suppose I would drill
holes in the base front lip to secure the track. But I would
double/triple caulk the screws... a dab of caulk in the hole as
the screw goes in, and a dab on top of the screw to prevent water
from reaching it. And the surfaces need to be very clean.
This problem can be overcome. As for that builder....
Regards,
Bruce W. Maki, Editor.
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